Gespräch über Fluchtursachen Maissara Saeed lebt seit 2010 in Deutschland, seit 2011 wohnt er in Hannover. Als universitär gebildete und kritisch denkende Person war er bereits im Sudan beruflich und politisch stark für Freiheit, Demokratie und das Respektieren von Menschenrechten engagiert.

Aufgrund von politischer Verfolgung aus dem Sudan geflohen, wurde ihm 2012 in Deutschland das Recht auf politisches Asyl zugesprochen. Von Beginn an engagiert Maissara sich hier stark für die Rechte und für Empowerment von Flüchtlingen und für interkulturellen Austausch und Perspektivwechsel.

Im Interview unterhielten wir uns mit Maissara über seine ganz persönlichen Gedanken zum Thema Flucht. Im Folgenden lesen Sie die ungekürzte Originalfassung des Interviews. Auszüge aus dem Interview auf Deutsch finden Sie unten im Dokument! Das Interview führte Rosa Grave.

Maissara, what are the main causes for fleeing to Europe for you?
In general, it's absence of freedom. There's nothing called freedom in my country, I have to be clear in this. And this is not only because of the government. Because also the social system and social norms and culture of the people themselves because now you can illuminate the government and now you can go to see how people deal with the concept called freedom. So, this word doesn't exist in Sudan if you want to talk about freedom that means you are not welcome, it's not welcome to talk about freedom. And people they start to label you like corrupted guy, because you want people to be free. And in this most of the people put focus on the superficial idea of freedom, that means, if you want to talk about freedom of women you want to promote prostitution and sexual relationship , you know you want to corrupt these and also they think about you want our young people just to go to partying and drinking alcohol and live life in this way. This is associated with freedom. Even in our political discussions with different groups and different people, we find all the time this idea on the table: Freedom will lead to corruption. Freedom, family destruction, freedom will lead to youth human ressources mismanagement and all of this. This is number one. Most of the people leave the country because of the freedom and SOMETIMES if you ask someone why he leaves the country he will tell you something about poverty, but: WHY he's poor? Because he's not free. If he would be free, he wouldn't be poor. This is when I talk about my home country like society like culture like political system, there is no freedom. And when I talk about political situation people leave the country because there is no democracy. No democracy because there is no freedom. Freedom isn't rooted in minds of people, that is why they can't negotiate in democracy. This is a part where I feel that I can't express myself because to increase about "freedom is possible" about the need of our woman to be free, our children to be protected is possible, but, we need democracy to do this and the government of Sudan is not responsible and blocked this. That's why I felt: okay, to invest my life to flee. Probably if I stayed in Sudan up to this moment I would be killed definitely, I think (laughing).

And would you say this is special for Sudan or would you say, what you told me now, these are reasons for many people in other countries as well?
Definitely! I didn't live in other countries, but I visited Syria, Egypt, unfortunately I didn't do so with other subsaharian coutries, but we have the same picture, with Uganda, Kenia, Somalia, Erithrea, so I can say, this is the reality. Because absence of democracy at a political level and absence of understanding of freedom as so important for a society and a culture, I think lead to complications. MASS violations of human rights, as you can see killing, rape of woman and children, torture, whatever. And each one can feel it.

And where do you see links of these causes of fleeing to Germany?
You can't put Germany out of the European context. Because up to this moment Europeans are so proud to saying that you are united, you have one state and you could do this and that. But, I have to point to clarify about this what is about history and what is about the present moment. European are responsible about what is going on in the countries that they occupied in the past, like Sudan. And for this they delay the development of this country on one hand. On the second hand they disturb the normal development of the normal culture and social norms so the people find themselves in the middle. They couldn't stick to their traditions to improve it in a way build their society depends on their own. Why? Because the history influenced at administrative and cultural level by others. For example: Odman empire occupied my country for more than 60 years and this was followed by great Britain for more than 60 years. 120 years of Turkish culture, Islamic culture, and again with European culture, Christianity and so on. And this make like gap, big generation gap and most of the people they couldn't fill it. Not only in Sudan, also in different other Asian, latin American and African countries. This is one responsibility and the Europeans said: okay, that time is finished now and we felt sorry. And we have to change it. But they are not true and honest to do it, yes. Because up to now, they think to keep: what could, what they could gain at that time from eh different resources, money, development and they want to enjoy it, without taking responsibility in a responsible way. Because I could see how they deal with Syria, and also with Sudanese case and also Somali, different cases. It is irresponsible and eh, yeah, in this irresponsibility I could see them how they give weapons to my people to fight each other. And instead of saying: fighting is not a solution. We can't support you. You want to fight, you can fight alone, we will not support you" and. "this is your brother, YOU should find a way to negotiate and compromise and live with each other, this is the final solution, we will NEVER support you against your brother. And most of the time, people when they feel like they have no hope and they are weaker they can compromise. But then what is happening? Even up to this moment you can find international community including Russia, they are supporting the fighting group, in each country. Because of their own. And this is also another kind of responsibility and about Sudan we have a really clear case, although Germany is trying to help Sudan people, but we could see that Germany is supportive to the regime in Sudan. Yeah, they are supporting them, but in a clever way, they do it through the business men and they allow them to have a strong relationship there also with business men in Sudan and to make money. And through this, Germany is so supportive, especially ministry of foreign affairs. And also they are ignoring the Sudan big crisis to receive refugees from Sudan and also, this is a kind of responsibility. In this way, Germany is so linked to deepening the bad situation in Sudan.

What do you think about the current policies that you observe in Europe and in Germany, what is your opinion?
Oh, my opinion will be maybe medical more than political (laughing) because: wrong diagnosis will lead to wrong treatment. They are diagnosing the situation as if the problem is abroad, is outside. And, if you miss the diagnosis you will miss the treatment. The problem is deeply rooted in Europe itself. What is going outside, because Europe is irresponsible. Irresponsible, that means we have to look what type of capacities that we have and how we use it. In Europe we have, I think, I live here for five years now; I could SEE to what degree these countries are so rich. Not only in terms of money, also in terms of human resources, in terms of knowledge, in terms of technology, in terms of science, in terms of freedom, everything. This should be the base for responsibility. But the degree of responsibilities doesn't fit with the capacities and possibilities that these counties have. This is because of the narrow mind of the politicians. I met a number of them, I see how they deal with problems and MOST of the time they diagnose the problem as if it is outside the European zone, but the problem is INside. I visited Rumania for example, Spain, I saw how people live there, I visited different areas in Germany and this culture should be changed. Social norms should be developed and then people can see clearly that the problem is not abroad, the problem is here and how politicians diagnose the problems.

Would you say it's only a narrow thinking of politicians?
I tell you, they said okay: we want to stop migration flow and smuggling and they cheat us, they said, this is how to stop trafficking, human trafficking. For this we have to declare or establish what's so called Kartoon process. I didn't read about it in detail but I could understand that Kartoon process is a process which is established and managed by the European countries in collaboration with African countries including Sudan and north African countries. And through this process, they have to do some things to stop this smuggling, trafficking, human flow to Europe. But unfortunately there is a missed part in this. You will administrate this process with totally corrupted administration like Sudan administration or Eritrea administration. At the same time you will administrate it with half corrupted administration like European administration. They are also corrupted because we know to what degree the relation of politicians and the marked and those who have the money in Europe are linked. And at that time I could feel that in Europe in all administration level each one he blocked his office and just takes care of his job and he never takes care about if his job is productive to the community or not, at what degree he can do his job in favor for the community. He does it for his own. That is why even the European administration is corrupted, half corrupted, in a way. That means, the one, he or she, I don't know who is responsible for this kartoon process, he or she, he doesn't care. He knows or she knows this will never lead to the happy end or to the goal but he never cares. He should take the money from the European Union and give it to his corrupted administration in Eritrea and Sudan and north Africa and later he will go home and take his rent and he's happy, you don't care. That means, because you asked me about being narrow minded. It's not only narrow- minded, it's stupid, yeah. Most of the time, European are trying to teach other, but is clear that they are stupid to the degree that stupidity away from this management. But this is what's happening.

You talked about politicians now and about people in administrative positions. What do you think about the role of civil society in Germany?
I would say they have clear links as well, yes! Because we all, not them, like European or whatever, we all are surrender to fear, we are So afraid all the time. And the European politicians and administration they use it. "if you want me to protect you, then you have to close your eyes from violation of human rights". I'll give you an example. Nowadays we have the problem in Paris in France. They are trying to use it in a way to solve refugee flow and they will use this status of to be afraid for what will happen tomorrow. Because you and me, we don't want to be killed in a coffee. They want to use it this is the time for this society not to allow this kind of human psychological mental status to be afraid, to be used by the European politicians and to strongly put alternatives, political and economic ways or passages. Because all the time I care about CDU, SPD, the Green Party, they all play the same game. But, most of the people, here I meet a lot of young people, they want to change it. But they think that they can't do it. They don't believe that they may have an alternative view to put it as a chance to change ALL this situation, so the German person or European person he can find only: "okay I have to choose CDU, SPD, Green Party or other, four options. Most of the people think this is not enough, you need more options and they feel like. And I think in this the communities and civil societies are responsible to put the alternatives in a very clear and strong way and scarify for it. And also you can see this big challenge in different countries.

Maybe to have a look at what you are doing here in Germany. You re a lot engaged in refugee right and empowerment of refugees. What is your motivation behind this? What is this about for you?
Yes, it is about dignity! It is about dignity. When I left my country, I never put in my mind that I will be active in refugee issue or refugees rights. The only thing I thought about, to come and try to organize a non governmental organization, because all the time, as political, action cannot be on the air, you have to like, establish something on the ground. And I want to have people in Sudan, especially women and children. And when I came to Germany I discovered that it is not how to help woman and children, it is about to help MYSELF (laughing), because I found myself in front of a system, administrative system clearly never recognizing human beings dignity, they never, even they felt strange sometimes how for refugees to talk about his dignity. Because they NEVER have in their mind or education or family or normal life they think about refugees in a very strange way, you know? As you are refugee that means that you are not human for them. And for me it is a matter of analysis, it is not something that makes me so angry because I'm SO interested to analyze the situation, really (laughing). And for this, I try to communicate and to send message very polite message and a very clear message. I talk about to what degree it is important practical to be free for the situation. Because at that time, not right to move, no right, no right, nothing actually. For my job to organize myself and to have my group and my people there. I can't stay for serious without my freedom, even not for me. And even they never recognize it. I don't want to say I'm important, but I say, I'm doing a job, I can't tolerate this kind of doings. They never cared about it. At that time I decided clearly that we are facing a kind of government violation, violation of human rights. Sudanese government and German government. But fortunately here in Germany they violate human rights using the law and democratic structures, this is the tricky part. And that's why it is totally a big injury for my dignity to have this situation and that is what it is clear , I can't say anything other than: it is political legal confrontation with the German government.
When we talk about motivation, we also have two dimensions. One of them is totally german. I don't know about the 84 million, but I know about 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, a lot of people I can't count. And in a one day, two day contact with them, it is not fair of German government to talk in their name in this racist way. That is why; I want myself to defend at least this German people from one hand. And for me this is a very important dimension, because all the time, the name of Germany is corrupt because of racism. And this racism is a big title in Germany and the one who leads this racism from my point of view is German government because of pour awareness about what "others" mean. And as defending myself, I'm trying to help people and help refugees and help woman and children in Sudan and also I want to help in neutralizing this bad doing from german government against German people themselves in this way. Because most of refugees now really can be clear from the way that people treat them in Ausländerbehörde or german governmental offices and the Bundesamt this will confirm for them if you are not German you are not equal, Punkt. This is not true! At least for my narrow circle of friends and maybe there's a lot of misunderstanding and cultural differences, but the german government is not clever enough or wise enough to reflect itself in a way to chnge this. And well GSDA, it is my idea when I left Sudan to have an organization. I don't know which name, in which name but when I was at braunschweig in my refugee Wohnheim, I met Hannes Oppel, he's journalist and making reportage about the issue and in this talking I reflected him that one of my plan I want to do is to make an organization but because of timing and the situation I can't do it now and we discussed how I can do it later. And he offered his support for this and immediately we started to organize it and we started like, at that time we were 6 persons, me, we are three sudanes and three german. And later, we developed to be more. But actually it is my plan since I left Sudan but I had no clear form and that is why you could see our mission or goal of sdanese women and children, at the same time, refugees. And that's wha I felt it is soo necessary to liberate ourselfes here as refugees in order to be able to help our people. Because one of the problems that we are facing now mot of Sudanese in diaspora, they need to organize themselves in order to help people and in order to take responsibility to change the situation. But they couldn't do it because they are facing this discrimination because of migration background. And for me this is something that shouldn't be like this.

And maybe you can say two sentences about your activity in the GSDA?
First, for me, generally we want to connect! Connect german people with Sudanese people. If you don't know each other, you can't do anything. So you have to know, what do you mean by Sudan and for Sudan is they have to know what exactly we mean by German? It's not enough to relate it to the issue of the government or media, day to day life is important. So that's one of my points, to make a platform for Sudanese and German people to come together. And they can compose their relationship, friendship or whatever and can walk together and know each other in a very grassroots level. This has nothing to do with the government or political, it has something to do with life. This is the first one, to connect.
The second dimension within this connection is to develop German society. We need to develop the society in terms of knowledge. Most of people think okay, I've gone to school, to university and I'm aware. This is not true and we are trying to talk Sudanes case and situation of women and culture and this and this and music sometimes and whatever. To let us be aware about different things. And also to mobilize during this educative process and try how to link this with the idea of refugees issue and how to protect refugees and in this we are trying to invite refugees all the time and talk about your rights. What is your right. And what I'm talking now, to what degree for example European countries are responsible and what should we do. And this kind of empowerment and awareness in refugees communities, self organization if you use communities will change the situation. These are the main things. And from time to time we are trying to mobilize German capacities to make small projects in Sudan and let our group come together with Sudanese group. That's why one of the recent project that we want to announce, is about girls, to give girls a chance and that means: we from GDSA, we will work together with a group of women, this is my favorite part because we want to let the women to be important and take responsibility. This is not the situation in Sudan, most of the people think, women or young girls, they can't take responsibility. The don't say: hey, if you are a group of women, we'll talk with you, what do you want to do, we try to help to have an amount of money to buy a computer or even formation or whatever, or books or whatever. And that's why we are trying to make a project of a centre for awareness for women. That means you have a library and internet office an also an office like to print things, to make your research if you are students or something like this and also we want to make a program called patience for patient safety, I mean a public health program. But the main factor in this is that we want to do it with young girls in Sudan. And in this we'll try to inform the German society to link to them.
Apart from this, in the GDSA our tradition is to have annual meetings to reflect all of our issues, for example in our last annual meeting we showed a movie of Sudan as broken land to show the history of Sudan and also we gave the stage for different refugees, different refugees self organized group, Oranienplatz, then in Hamburg, Hannover, to discuss. And the year before we had discussion about deportation and we showed a film about deportation we had a talk about asylumpolitic and the year before, in the first annual meeting, we had the topic of critical whiteness and we had talk about the power distribution of north and south. So this is one of our traditions every year.

Do you still have something in mind, that you would absolutely like to add?
I think it is not easy the issue of refugee issue, because it's a matter of empowerment and from basic characteristic of refugees. I can tell you for example about a refugee, who has grown up in Sudan in a very distant village and he didn't receive education for a long time, and he suffered of violence against him as children in his family, later his village was destroyed by militia, from the government militias. And later he could escape from Sudan and went to Libya and in Lydia he was tortured because of trafficking and smuggling and later he came to Griechenland and he faced racism from public and later came to Germany and then he faced this system , that is ignoring his dignity. What I want to say: this, this story will make the German communities of today, especially Hannover for example, is imbalanced from the beginning. At the same time, we should go through laws and system regulations based on GERMAN standards, okay? With German people and German individual standards, families and societies and these standards don't fit newcomers! Because the newcomers, they are lacking very basic stuff and in this I see the system is working all the time as if every think is okay and people are equal. People are equal just in case if we could do a lot to make them equal. And I think in this we have to think again about how can we empower refugees practically. That's why we are thinking now in our political circle how to empower our self also economically. Most of the people we had a relationship with those who want to help us. But my own direction is how to help myself, how to build my even economic capacities. I don't want to go to the people: "please, give me a job, give me job". People say: "Hey, you have to learn German, then you can come to ask about a job", this is a long process. Anyway, I want to say, it is totally imbalanced our community. This is not the fault of anyone, but the reality, but the people should think about HOW to reform the system in a way that can tolerate this kind of imbalance.

Yeah, maybe that's a good statement for the end of our interview, even though we could continue talking for hours, I'm sure! Thank you a lot Maissara for your openness and your critical thoughts!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deutsache Kurzübersetzung, Auszug aus der "VEN Positionen" 2/2015
Maissara Saeed: Flucht hat mit Freiheit, Demokratie und Würde zu tun
Maissara Saeed lebt seit 2010 in Deutschland, seit 2011 wohnt er in Hannover. Der studierte Laborassistent hat sich bereits im Sudan beruflich und politisch stark für Menschenrechte, Freiheit und Demokratie engagiert. Aufgrund von politischer Verfolgung aus dem Sudan geflohen, wurde ihm 2012 in Deutschland das Recht auf politisches Asyl zugesprochen. Von Beginn an engagierte Maissara sich hier stark für die Rechte und das Empowerment von Flüchtlingen sowie für interkulturellen Austausch und Perspektivwechsel.
Wir unterhielten uns mit Maissara über seine ganz persönlichen Gedanken zum Thema Flucht. Im Folgenden finden Sie Auszüge auf Deutsch aus dem Interview.

Maissara, was waren die Hauptgründe für dich, nach Europa zu fliehen?
Ganz allgemein ist es das Fehlen von Freiheit. Es gibt so etwas wie Freiheit in meinem Land nicht, dieses Wort existiert nicht. Wenn du über Freiheit sprechen willst, bist du nicht willkommen. Sogar in unseren politischen Diskussionen mit verschiedenen Gruppen und Personen finden wir immer noch die Idee, dass Freiheit zu Korruption, Familienzerstörung, falschem Management von menschlichen Ressourcen und all dem führe. Die meisten Menschen verlassen das Land wegen dieser Abwesenheit von Freiheit, das ist Grund Nummer eins. Manchmal wird dir jemand auf die Frage nach Fluchtgründen etwas von Armut erzählen. Aber: warum ist er arm? Weil er nicht frei ist!
Ein anderer Grund ist: es gibt keine Demokratie. Keine Demokratie weil es keine Freiheit gibt. Freiheit ist in den Köpfen der Menschen nicht verankert, deswegen können sie auch schwerlich demokratisch verhandeln.

Ist das eine spezielle Situation im Sudan? Oder gibt es ähnliche Gründe für viele Menschen in anderen Ländern?
Auf jeden Fall gibt es woanders ähnliche Gründe! Weil das Fehlen von Demokratie auf politischer Ebene und das fehlende Verständnis von Freiheit führen zu Komplikationen wie massiver Verletzung der Menschenrechte wie z.B. Tötung, Gewalttaten gegenüber Frauen und Kindern, Folter, was auch immer. Und wir alle können es spüren. Deswegen sind Freiheit und Demokratie so wichtig für eine Gesellschaft und eine Kultur.
In wieweit sind diese Probleme mit Ländern wie Deutschland verknüpft?
Du kannst Deutschland nicht ohne den europäischen Kontext betrachten. Europäer sind jetzt verantwortlich für das, was in denjenigen Ländern passiert, die sie in der Vergangenheit besetzt haben, so wie Sudan. Die Geschichte ist auf administrativer und kultureller Ebene so stark von anderen Ländern beeinflusst. Nicht nur im Sudan, auch in anderen asiatischen, lateinamerikanischen und afrikanischen Ländern. Das ist eine Verantwortung und die Europäer sagen: „okay, diese Zeit ist ja jetzt vorbei, es tut uns Leid und wir müssen das ändern". Aber sie sind nicht wirklich ehrlich, Verantwortung für das zu tragen, was in der Vergangenheit passiert ist. Bis heute interessiert sie der Nutzen in Bezug auf Ressourcen, Geld, Entwicklung und sie wollen profitieren, ohne Verantwortung zu übernehmen. Ich kann zum Beispiel sehen, wie europäische Unternehmen Waffen an meine Leute geben, um sich gegenseitig zu bekämpfen. Und anstatt zu sagen: „Bewaffneter Krieg ist keine Lösung, wir werden euch nicht unterstützen", unterstützt die internationale Gemeinschaft die kämpfenden Gruppen, in jedem Land. Aufgrund ihrer eigenen Interessen.
Im Sudan haben wir einen klaren Fall. Deutsche unterstützen das sudanesische Regime, aber sie tun es auf eine clevere Art. Sie tun es über deutsche Geschäftsleute, die starke Verbindungen mit Geschäftsleuten im Sudan haben, um Geld zu machen. Dadurch ist Deutschland auf so eine negative Weise unterstützend.

Was denkst du über die aktuelle Flüchtlingspolitik, die du in Europa und Deutschland beobachtest?
Oh, meine Antwort wird vielleicht vielmehr medizinisch ausfallen als politisch (lacht), weil: eine falsche Diagnose wird zu falscher Behandlung führen. Die Situation wird diagnostiziert als ob das Problem woanders liegt. Aber es ist tief verwurzelt in Europa. In Europa kann ich sehen, wie reich an Geld, aber auch Wissen und Technologien diese Länder sind. Aber das Maß an übernommener Verantwortung stimmt nicht überein mit dem Reichtum, den Kapazitäten und Möglichkeiten, die diese Länder haben.
Europäische Politiker_innen und Behörden werden auch korrupt, wenn sie mit afrikanischen Staaten zusammenarbeiten. Wir wissen, wie stark die Beziehungen von Politiker_innen, dem Markt und all solchen, die das Geld haben, miteinander verknüpft sind. Ich konnte erleben, dass Menschen in Europa auf allen administrativen Ebenen nur auf die Sicherheit ihres Jobs achten und sich nicht darum scheren, ob dieser Job produktiv für die Gemeinschaft ist oder nicht. Sie arbeiten für sich selbst. Daher sind sogar die europäischen Behörden korrupt, halb korrupt kann man vielleicht sagen.

Du hast bisher von Politiker_innen und Menschen in administrativen Positionen gesprochen. Was denkst du über die Rolle von Zivilgesellschaft in Deutschland?
Sie haben auch klare Verbindungen zum Thema Flucht, ja! Wir sind alle so ängstlich die ganze Zeit. Und die europäischen Politiker_innen und Administrationen nutzen unsere Ängste. Die Anschläge in Paris sind das beste Beispiel dafür. Sie nutzen es in einer Weise, um Fluchtbewegungen zu stoppen und sie werden diesen Status des „Angst Habens" für das nutzen, was in der Zukunft passieren wird. Es ist Zeit für diese Gesellschaft, diesen mentalen Status der Angst nicht Überhand nehmen zu lassen, damit er nicht von den europäischen Politker_innen missbraucht werden kann. Wir müssen starke Alternativen setzen, auf politischer, wirtschaftlicher und sozialer Ebene. Ich treffe viele Menschen in Deutschland/Hannover, die zu einer Veränderung beitragen wollen. Und ich denke die Gemeinschaften und Zivilgesellschaft sind verantwortlich, wirklich Alternativen auf klare und starke Art und Weise zu etablieren.

Lass uns einen Blick darauf werfen, was du hier in Detuschland machst. Du engagierst dich viel für die Rechte und Empowerment von Geflüchteten. Was motiviert dich? Was bedeutet diese Arbeit für dich?
Es geht mir um Würde! Als ich nach Deutschland kam, fand ich mich gegenüber einem System, welches die menschliche Würde nicht wahrnimmt. Als Geflüchtete_r bist du kein Mensch. Für mich ist das nicht direkt etwas, was mich nur sauer macht. Vielmehr bin ich so interessiert daran, die Situation zu analysieren und zu verstehen (lacht). Also versuche ich zu kommunizieren und einen sehr klaren und höflichen Appell zu senden. Kein Recht sich zu bewegen, kein Recht auf dies, kein Recht auf das...aus dieser Erfahrung habe ich die klare Meinung entwickelt, dass wir einer Art Regierungsverletzung der Menschenrechte begegnen. Seitens der deutschen und der sudanesischen Regierung. Der Unterschied ist, dass Menschenrechte hier in Deutschland verletzt werden, indem das Gesetz und demokratische Strukturen genutzt werden, das ist der knifflige Aspekt.

Du hast auch die "German Sudanese Association" (GSDA) mitbegründet. Was macht ihr in diesem Verein?
Erst einmal wollen wir vernetzen! Deutsche und sudanesische Menschen. Wenn du einander gar nicht kennst, kannst du auch nichts machen. Das alltägliche Leben ist wichtig. Also bieten wir eine Plattform an, zusammen zu kommen, gemeinsam zu arbeiten und sich kennen zu lernen, auf einer Graswurzelebene.
Die zweite Dimension innerhalb dieses Vernetzens ist es, vermeintliches deutsches Wissen zu überdenken. Die meisten Menschen denken: „okay, ich bin zur Schule und zur Uni gegangen, ich bin mir über alles bewusst". Das stimmt so nicht und wir versuchen, unser Bewusstsein über verschiedene Dinge zu hinterfragen und zu erweitern. Und das Thema Flucht in einen weiteren Kontext einzubetten, gemeinsam mit Geflüchteten und Deutschen. Das sind die Hauptaspekte unseres Engagements.
Gerade planen wir gemeinsam mit einer sudanesischen Gruppe ein Projekt im Sudan; wir wollen ein „Center of awareness" einrichten, um Frauen und Kinder zu stärken. Hierzu werden wir auch versuchen, die deutsche Gesellschaft zu informieren und Verbindungen zu unseren sudanesischen Partnern zu ziehen.

Würdest du am Ende gerne noch etwas loswerden, was für dich offen geblieben ist?
Mh, vielleicht möchte ich noch einmal verdeutlichen, dass dies alles nicht einfach ist. Wir durchlaufen einen Prozess mit Gesetzen und Systemen, die auf deutschen Standards basieren und diese Standards sind nicht passend für „Newcomers"! Weil denjenigen, die neu in dieses System kommen, fehlen sehr grundlegende Dinge und ich denke, das System funktioniert die ganze Zeit als ob alles gut wäre und als ob alle Menschen gleich wären. In Bezug auf Flucht sind nicht alle Menschen gleich, das müssen wir bedenken. Und hier müssten wir wieder darüber nachdenken, wie wir geflüchtete Menschen ganz praktisch (be)stärken können. Der Großteil der Menschen möchte uns helfen. Aber mein eigener Ansatz ist es, mir selbst zu helfen, auch im Hinblick auf die Frage, meine eigenen ökonomischen Kapazitäten aufzubauen.
Wir sollten darüber nachdenken, was sich ändern muss, damit es ein solches Ungleichgewicht nicht gibt, sodass jeder Mensch wirklich gleich sein kann.

Das ist doch ein anregendes Statement zum Ende unseres Interviews. Vielen Dank Maissara für deine Offenheit und deine kritischen Gedanken!